Dr. Rome Washington - A Purple Heart Marine, Shares How God Shaped His Life

Intro And Guest Snapshot

SPEAKER_01 0:08

Marine Corps veteran, Purple Heart recipient, corporate sales executive for thirty-five years, PhD in religious studies, and author of the book Jesus Walks into a Bar. Brother Rome, Washington, are you ready? I am ready. Well, let's get it.

SPEAKER_03 0:31

Urban Christian Veterans provides a safe place for Christian veterans of color to discuss the challenges you face in your daily lives. Being a person of color has its challenges. Being a Christian has its challenges. Being a veteran has its challenges. All of those factors being combined makes for a unique and sometimes difficult life experience that is seldom talked about in public forums. Thank you for tuning in to the Urban Christian Veterans Podcast. Here's your host, D. Allen Rose.

SPEAKER_01 1:07

Thank you, Erin, for that wonderful introduction. This is D Allen Rose, and you are listening to the Urban Christian Veterans Podcast. So, first, let me just say thank you, man. Thank you, thank you, thank you for uh taking the time to sit down with me and uh talk about you a little bit. Um, and speaking of that, could you tell the audience a little bit about yourself?

SPEAKER_00 1:32

Well, um uh uh yeah, a little bit of the bio. I'm um I don't want to say ex-marine, I'm a uh Marine uh Corps veteran. Uh spent four years in there uh during the uh Vietnam era. So by that you could probably tell my age. So uh been around a little bit. Okay. And um it's been a uh a journey. Uh and as I I speak now, you know, in in a retired capacity, uh it's been a lot of reflections on how I've been shaped by circumstances and and by my walk, uh my spiritual walk. And that's a little bit about what I want to share today.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

Okay.

Volunteering For The Marines

SPEAKER_01 2:17

Vietnam veteran. Um, so I know a lot of Vietnam vets uh were drafted. Uh what was your reason for joining?

SPEAKER_00 2:29

Okay, you'll get a kick out of this.

SPEAKER_01 2:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

Uh I wasn't drafted. I volunteered. Uh in retrospect, that wasn't the the probably the smartest decision, but here's how I arrived at that. Okay. I was just 17. Okay. And uh I had a brother in the Air Force, one in the Army, one in the Navy. So I told my auntie who raised us, said, you know what, I think I'll do it. I think I'll go in the Marines so that you have all four pictures up there, not knowing what that entailed, right? So yeah, I I went on and volunteered uh to go into the Marines and that was in 67. And uh if I had to do it all over again, uh I may put a little bit more thought into it.

SPEAKER_01 3:20

Okay, okay. Well, uh, um that's cool. So you volunteered uh during the Vietnam era. That is that's unique. Let me just let me just say, I think um you're one of very few that I've ever heard said I went in on my own. Um which is cool. Uh and you say, well, if you had to do it again, you you put more thought into it. But if you put more thought into it, where'd you go? Would you do anything different?

SPEAKER_00 3:52

Uh probably not. Uh let me give you a little bit more background, uh social background, you know, how how the whole uh milieu there was at that time.

Chicago, School, And Leaving Home

SPEAKER_00 4:02

Um racially, socially, it was a tense time. You know, you had the war, you had the war of protesters, you you still had uh uh a bit of Jim Crow going around. Um I was in high school, but the high school was a junk with itself. And I did not really know how to survive. To back it up just a little bit more, I was raised in a parochial school because my auntie was very religious. Okay. And she sent all of us to a parochial school in Chicago, Corpus Christi. And there, you know, you you learn the Bible, you you learned uh uh uh taught ethics, and and and uh parochial schools were just more strict. Uh so once I got out of eighth grade and went to public high school, it was a culture shop. And then uh I was transferred, we moved, I was transferred to a school on the south side of Chicago, Inglewood High School, and not to disparage them, but it's rough, you know. Uh too rough. The girls too were rough. So okay. It did not take me long to decide that, man, I I don't know if I can handle this. And I was a uh junior at the time. Okay. Um and uh I still smart and had my wits about me, but I could not mingle there. So when I was old enough, I dropped out of Englewood.

SPEAKER_01 5:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:39

Because I didn't want to continue, I wanted something else. So mine said, yeah, well, you're gonna have to work or do something. So that's that was another motivation for going into service. That story was a common story back in the day. Dropping out, the dropout rate was very high. There were no jobs on the street, except if you want to work in a meat market or something. And so the service was a natural progression. Maybe you can even say it was a goal for some of the young black men to get in the service because they they would have time to work out their life, they would get three square meals a day, and you know, just have a different self-image. Because we used to see guys coming back from the service after boot camp. Man, they would be coming back all buffed up and stuff and had a little money in their pocket. So I said, well, you know what? Okay, I go, I'm gonna go that route. So that that that's really part of the motivation, too.

SPEAKER_01 6:35

Okay, okay. I could see that um that being a goal uh in in years past, because even when I went in, I didn't go until 88. And um I could see it being a goal. Uh I would say today, however, um not so much things have have changed. And I yeah, one of the reasons I think things changed is there's a lot more opportunity. You see a lot more young people doing stuff um that uh just weren't available to us right back then, and and doing quite well. Becoming millionaires at at young ages, and uh you know, so there's there's much more to do. Um and plus right now, the way things are in the world and in our government, uh I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 7:36

Yeah, it it it is super tough. And and you bring up uh a very good point that uh children now have uh different things they can aspire to. Uh with with technology coming over in in their lifetime, there there's a whole avenue there, and not to mention the entertainment industry. Oh, yeah. Whether it's music or anything else, it's open to them. You know, we we thought we were pretty cool when we had stacks in Motown and all that stuff, but now it's just completely blown up. And you know, you got uh all these uh Spotify and everything where you can just download. So they're into that. So you're right, and they take a very different attitude toward going into the service, as they should. They should be a little bit more discretionary. So you that's a good point, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:23

Yeah, no, that's I I didn't even think about that because um people have they no longer need you know, record companies, they just they're just in their bedrooms making music, and thousands and thousands and thousands of people can hear it. So yeah, things things are different. Things are different.

SPEAKER_00 8:44

Not only that, they can become influencers, like they're like, what is that? Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 8:56

Yeah, well, but my hats off to them. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. No doubt. I'd uh hey, more

Truth, Faith, And Life After War

SPEAKER_01 9:03

power to them. Um so looking back to the day that you left the military, uh, what advice would you give your younger self about how society would treat you as a Christian veteran of color?

SPEAKER_00 9:18

Well, it depends on actually uh when my younger self got out of service, because a lot of advice that I could give right now to somebody getting out is totally archaic, uh totally non-applicable. And they would tell me to my face, young Jerome would tell me to my face, yeah, that that don't even work nowadays. But there's some things that never change. Wisdom never changes, um insight never changes. Um the spirit of a man who walks with his God never changes, Christ never changes. Same today and forever. So, what I would tell that younger me, regardless of when he got out, regardless of what society pressures were present at that time, I would tell him to stay attuned to your truth.

SPEAKER_02 10:28

Don't depend on what you think you know.

SPEAKER_00 10:36

Depend on the truth, and that would lead me to the same place I was when I got out in 71. At that point, that Jerome at 21 years old, while he was in the service, he came really to know Christ. Okay, and really to know uh the Bible and the wisdom contained therein. Because once I started reading Proverbs, I said, This is like the father I never had the advice that that that I could extract from that. And I knew it was better advice than I was getting from the other military uh partners I was hanging out with.

SPEAKER_02 11:28

Right.

SPEAKER_00 11:29

So I drilled down into that. And the Psalms had me praying, and the Holy Spirit comes and you know, He just lifts you up and looks after you. And I needed that at 21 in a very, oh man, very crucial time in in society. Uh, you know, King and got killed, man. I was I myself, coming from Vietnam, black power was all that there is, or all that there was. And we would came back loaded for bear, basically. There's a lot of hate in that that young man who, you know, who came out. But as time went on, it was relinquished. So, yes, I would tell that guy, that that younger me, that still take that path. Take the high road. Hate is no good in any form. Even today, there's some situations where we can actually feel hate. And you notice those situations I'm talking about. They come on TV every day, you know, with a very strange, very strange, I want to say color, but you know what I'm saying. I'm I'm not gonna name no names, but you know what I'm saying. And uh I would tell them, just stay above all that. You know, as Earth Window Fighters say, keep your head to the sky, you know, and and and just keep your heart and and do what's right.

Jesus Walks Into A Bar Origins

SPEAKER_01 13:03

Okay, so let's talk about your book. Uh Jesus Walks into a Bar. Interesting title. Uh very interesting title. Um, give us an overview. What what's it about?

SPEAKER_00 13:16

Yeah, uh it's a conversational, uh slightly humorous and really a deeply accessible exploration of Christianity. And I wrote it for you know the skeptics, uh casual believers, or anybody who ever felt confused or even frustrated by religion. Now, I'm gonna tell you why I uh what motivated me to write this. I used to be a staunch apologetics, student of apologetics. And anytime I got a chance to speak with an atheist or agnostic or somebody who's skeptical, man, the Marine came out and I just wanted to do judo with him, right? So I'll be a slam dunking him, man, with all this theology and doctrine and uh apologetic proofs. But what I found out is that I might win the argument, but I would not win the person. I I I it it didn't move him. You know, uh there's a saying that says, uh man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still. So I thought, you know, I gotta find a better way to do this if I'm gonna be doing the Lord's work.

SPEAKER_01 14:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 14:36

So I said I have to be softer and kinder, just like the New Testament says, you know, with apologetics. That was the genesis of Jesus walks into a bar. That I would write a book for people who are skeptical or curious or even in the church, but don't get the right kinds of uh uh theology that that really answers a lot of questions that they have or afraid to ask. So I decided I was gonna write this book. I was going to uh cut through the cliches, the churchy jargon and cultural noise to reintroduce Jesus as a compelling, relatable, and uh world-changing figure that people may have heard of but don't know about. They may have heard some parables or things from his message, but they don't know you know what he was really all about in his mission. So that was a genesis of Jesus walks into a bar. And so I try to make it different and unique.

SPEAKER_01 15:42

Uh well, you did with the title. Let me just say that. Okay. Okay. First off, Jesus in a bar. Okay, right on. So no, I I I think that's fascinating because uh many, many, many moons ago, I was the exact opposite. Meaning I would go look for at the time. Look, I used to call them Bible thumpers. Let me go find me a Bible thumper. Yeah, I was the opposite. I would uh I would run into a lot of believers who unfortunately weren't mature in their walk and were easy to dismantle and I was I was uh I was a fairly good debater and I feel so badly now because I think I really, really um I tore some people down who weren't prepared. Um and yeah, I I I feel badly to the point I had to repent on that one. Like, man, I I you know I didn't know any better myself. I I didn't even know if what I was saying was true. It was like I was a good debater, I'd like to I like the crowd. And one of the things that you can do in front of a crowd, um, as long as you talk louder, right? You you talk louder, and then you know, the the lazy default position is always well prove it. Right? And someone who is not prepared will often stumble. And that was my that was my go-to. Then prove it. Give me some proof right now. Just give me some, you know, and they would they would be flustered. So I think that that's that is awesome in terms of your reasoning. Now, there were a couple of chapters I think that stood out to me, especially the titles.

Christianity Beyond Self-Help

SPEAKER_01 17:46

Um uh chapter three Christianity is not just another self-help program because Jesus did not die to be your life coach. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 17:58

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Uh, here's what I I don't shy away from Christianity on one side or the other, uh, because some of the distortions that have developed around Christianity have come from within people who call themselves Christian. And uh with chapter three, uh, the core idea is that Christianity is not a motivational lifestyle. It is not, you know, self-help with a halo on top. And the the people who have taken that approach have greatly distorted Christianity. And in a way, they're hurting the very people that they're you know preaching this thing to. Uh, the prosperity gospel is a prime example. You know, you got these people saying, well, if you if you pray hard enough and you visualize and get your vision boards and and uh donate enough uh that whatever you want in life, you're gonna get. Hallelujah.

unknown 19:11

Right.

SPEAKER_00 19:11

Thank you, Jesus. You know, that is a terrible distortion of the Christianity and the good news of the New Testament. And so I don't shy away from that. And I tell Jesus didn't die to be your life coach, he desired died to redeem you. Okay, and so yeah, that's where we go into that. During the 70s, there was a um positive thinking movement. And I know because during that time I was in sales, and uh, as a salesperson, you always try to motivate yourself. So one thing that you always read, one book was Thinking We're Rich by Napoleon Hill. Napoleon Hill. That is a great book that will motivate a dead man. We read that book and we were ready. All we gotta do is you know think about you know what we want and and you know, have the discipline and the 13 principles or whatever, and you get it. And in fact, that does work. That does work, but that is entirely separate from what the New Testament is preaching. And there's no knock against prosperity in there, but you don't preach that from the pulpit. The pulpit, and you're talking about Christ, is an entirely different thing than this prosperity gospel. And many people have just taken that because people have itching ears and they want to hear it, and made megachurches out of it. So I just felt it just needed to be differentiated, and that's what I do on the book.

SPEAKER_01 20:51

Wow, that is that is very interesting uh that you mentioned that. Um had you had the heard the or read the version by Dennis Kimbrough, Dr. Dennis Kimbrough? Yep. Um okay.

SPEAKER_00 21:03

Yep. Came out uh a while back too.

SPEAKER_01 21:06

Right, right. Yeah. So I like I like what he did because I think he took the same formula. However, where he differed is I think he he drew drew people in with the prosperity. Hey, these people, this is what made them different. And you know, you get drawn in and you think, you know, self-help, let me take some notes and do the same thing they did. But then what he did was he twisted it and said, um what made them different was their mindset, not the faith in this prosperity, but the mindset and the what the things they put their mind to in the way that they disciplined themselves. So it wasn't just uh a feel good rah rah rah yeah, you know, uh thing. And so that's I that's why I liked I liked his his take.

SPEAKER_00 22:04

He was very grounded in what he presented, as well as these early motivational books are. And even the ones today are probably pretty grounded. But let's not get it twisted. And all of a sudden, you want to bring Christ into here, or even God for that matter, and giving his blessings on what you're saying up there in regards to material gain. Because that is not the gospel that Christ preached. So that's why, you know, um he didn't die to be your life coach. You know, his work were way above that. I mean, if you want to do it, do it in a TED talk, but but you know, don't call yourself a church, you know, and and preach that. That that's my position, you know, in chapter three. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:55

Understood.

Science, Quantum Wonder, And God

SPEAKER_01 22:56

Um, so chapter seven says science versus faith and unnecessary conflict. That's very interesting. Where are you coming from with that one?

SPEAKER_00 23:09

Uh where I'm coming from is this. In the early years of science, uh, and many of the early scientists, uh, I'm talking Bacon, Newton, um, you know, uh some of the very Mendel, uh, some of the early ones, they pursued science as a way to find out more about God's creation. And even today, in essence, that's what they're doing. Uh science has brought us a lot, a lot of advancement and products and and uh cures. Uh, so it's it's a blessed science uh you know from God.

SPEAKER_02 24:00

Um but somewhere along the line it became elevated over God's creation.

SPEAKER_00 24:12

That science is going to be the one that leads us forward in life. Here again, let's not get it twisted. The creation was here long before science, and what science knows even in 2026 is minuscule. They are still learning about things that God created in an instant. So when I say there's not a uh it's an unnecessary conflict, I was reading something uh the other day, uh, The Hidden Face of God, by a modern scientist, and it it really goes into like quantum physics and uh all this and how they have drilled down to the uh nuclear molecular level of atoms and electrons and come to find and Einstein already you know propagated this that even if you go down deep, very, very deep, that these atoms, these electrons, uh in the space that they orbit around each other, if it were blown out, you would have so you'd have millions of miles of space between them. They are saying now that even solid things like this cell phone is got, although it feels dense, it ain't if you drill down far enough. But here's what they found, and here's the key. Everything, everything that that moves at that subatomic level is guided by energy. The energy is guided by intelligence. That's the essence that they're drilling down now, you know, in quantum physics. And all these revelations are coming out each and every day. Now we've got macro arguments. Oh, the Big Bang created everything, and they were there was a Big Bang, all right. And we don't need a creator to explain the physical. Well, obviously you do, because as you are still learning about it. Right. And the the non-conflict is this. The early scientists knew this, and it's coming around full circle, that there's so many questions that modern science can't answer that they have to put up their hands and say, some intelligence, some intelligence did this because everything's so orderly from the summer topic movements to to nature's regularity. Is there a conflict? Only if if they want to say, well, I'm I don't believe it. I'm an atheist. You know, I believe in evolution, that kind of thing. And and yeah, evolution is you know, it happens. It's a real thing, but uh I don't think so. You know, the way you you're trying to put it forth. Because I believe right now, with the discovery of uh of DNA and some of the other things that are discovered, uh, that kind of puts a a real a real hitch in uh Darwin's theory of evolution. And I think most scientists would you know accept that.

SPEAKER_01 27:37

They'll argue against it, but they uh I think uh that particular chapter, um, especially the title, is is intriguing to me personally because um I love science. Yeah, I don't want to do science, if that makes sense. Like tell me about it. But I don't yeah, yeah, you know, you know, the planets and whatnot. I love to hear just look at the planets, but I don't I don't want to go there, right? You just you go do it and come tell me about it. So here's the thing here's the thing that the what intrigues me about this is you'll have non-believers who are scientists that make it their life's mission to prove through science that God didn't do it. Right? Um and will not accept that what you're doing is prove how God did it. Not that he didn't do it, you're just proving how he did it. And they won't accept, in my opinion, the concept of revelation. Meaning you discovered what you discovered when you discovered it through your scientific breakthrough because God decided to reveal based on the fact that now we're ready. We weren't ready yesterday, we weren't ready ten years ago. Yeah that's called revelation. And if anything, you should be, you know, you should be happy and appreciative that at this time he feels you're ready, that we're ready to accept these things.

SPEAKER_02 29:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:32

But furthermore, this, you know, scientists will always say they're laws, right? Laws of physics and laws of this and laws of that. But yet they observe things that are breaking these laws all the time. So if it's in nature and it's breaking the law, what are you gonna do? You're gonna change your law because you are observing something that is going against your law, right? Because you just mentioned um quantum physics. Well, if you go down to the molecular molecular level and you study atoms, protons, neutrons, electrons. Right. Protons, yeah. Right? So the law of physics says uh opposites attract, right? Like will repel. But then they discover that at the at the atomic level you've got two positive charges spinning around each other, attracting. How you that's breaking your law. To the extent that I think a few years ago, it's about four years ago, I read where the United States and some other countries partnered and put together this multimillion dollar task force to figure that out. They were calling it, look, they were calling it the God force. What is this God force that is causing these things to be attracted to each other? Because that's that's going against the law. So even the scientists are making reference to God, right? It's it's the God particle.

SPEAKER_00 31:13

Yeah, and that's at some point they have to, because that there's so much wonder, not only in the universe above us, but even as you mentioned, at some atopic level, there's so many things that they're discovering that they just gotta throw their hands up and say, we don't know. What are you gonna attribute it to? Now, if you if you you you don't want it to be a guy, well that's on you. Um and here's my thing. If Christ hadn't come, we would have uh good reason probably to speculate and argue about all this stuff. But he came historically, and you're talking about um uh a man, um a divine man, if if you will, um who control the elements of nature at a command.

SPEAKER_02 32:10

Right.

SPEAKER_00 32:12

That right there is enough, at least in for me, to say, you know what? Yeah, there is a God. There is definitely a God. Right. And and and Christ is a historical fact. So I don't know. They they can stay in their life and do whatever they want to do. It's good for question, but there's so many things that they can't answer. Uh, you know, they they can answer uh maybe how the universe works, but uh they can't answer why it exists, why we're created in the first place. Why is there anything to start with? Man, don't get me started on that one. Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_01 32:56

Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. Scientists and their laws. You can't get something from nothing.

SPEAKER_00 33:02

Well, explain that one. Right, right, right, right. Right.

SPEAKER_01 33:06

So no, that's that's that's a I love that chapter, man. That's uh that's that's one that I can go all day

Heaven, Hell, And Recruitment

SPEAKER_01 33:14

about. But anyway, um chapter 12, Heaven versus Hell, who has the better recruitment strategy? I I love that title.

SPEAKER_00 33:25

That was kind of uh I don't I I let my uh uh uh comedy come out a little bit on that one. Um but yeah, uh we're in a world now, a society now, that says, you know, hey, we are all that there is, let us go ahead, party, do whatever. Uh and who cares if there's an afterlife? And if there is an afterlife, heck, maybe I want to go to hell with all the party people. Because I really, you know, my picture of heaven is not all that great or exciting. So um that story has to be rectified, and uh they really don't have the correct picture as the Bible puts it. And so what I I I decided there is just uh since heaven is marketed poorly, uh maybe show them exactly you know what God has in store for them. And here again we go back to Jesus, what he promised. Okay, he he made grandiose visions, you know, um many mansions in his father's house. Uh he talked about uh the center to his left. Today you'll be with me in paradise. He revealed the the full architecture to John on the island of Patmos in Revelations, you know, talked about the streets of gold and crystal rivers and you know, just uh a wonderful existence with him for eternity. That's the real heaven, right? And that's the eternal heaven, and nothing that you could uh present uh with hell or Hades can even compare to it. Now, getting back to hell though, um a lot of people have a problem with God even creating a hell. You know, a loving God, why would he create a hell? Why would he create a hell? Well, one thing can do what he wants to do. Right. It was originally created for the uh falling angels, as we know. Uh then there's another theological perspective um regarding hell, that um although we have visions of fire and gnashing of teeth and eternal punishment, I mean, even the worst person probably wouldn't allow that because, especially if they have the power not to do it. But suppose there is a dark place where you know you're gonna be locked up eternally there, never getting over to the beauty of the other side. And Christ used a couple of parables to even illustrate that. Right. Um, you know, it's a chasm that you can't cross. And eternal regret. Your worst dream realized eternally. You ever been in a nightmare where you couldn't get out until you were so glad to wake up from it? Right. Suppose that had to persist eternally, yeah. Um, that that would be punishment enough. Uh we don't really know, but it's just an illustration where they need to to to really wake up and think about these things.

SPEAKER_01 37:05

Yeah, I think I think uh what interests me about that title for that chapter, um, in terms of a recruitment strategy, it's who has the better recruitment strategy. I I see on the one hand, I I get that. On the other hand, one of the things I was thinking was uh, you know, every time I read one of these, I tried to relate it to myself. And what's funny is, you know, if I'm when I'm honest with myself, I can tell you which one had the better strategy at different times in my life. Absolutely. Absolutely. So the recruitment strategy way back when um is a lot different than it is for me today. Let me just say it that way. Yeah. Um, and you know, as you as you get older, become more wise, things that were shiny back in the day are no longer shiny. Right. Right. And and things that are were attractive are no longer attractive.

SPEAKER_02 38:11

Right.

SPEAKER_01 38:12

And so I that's why, you know, as as you, you know, when I read that title, I was like, man, you know, this is one of those books where whoever gets it just needs to keep it around a minute. Right? Don't read it today and put it away. Keep it around and and revisit it. Yeah, revisit it every yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, every so many years, because I bet you uh, you know, your perspective uh changes to the extent where you get you live long enough, go through enough stuff. Uh heaven doesn't need a recruitment strategy. Right. You're you're going to seek it. You know, you don't need to recruit me. Absolutely. You know, that kind of thing. So oh no, I love that.

Why God Allows Suffering

SPEAKER_01 39:00

Um so chapter 14.

SPEAKER_00 39:03

Uh that's one of my favorite chapters. You know, I really let the imagination go on that. That that I love that chapter uh with the metaphysical courtroom.

SPEAKER_01 39:13

Well, see, and and the title being Why Does God Let Bad Things Happen is one of those questions. That's a timeless question, been around forever. And to this day, even the the the um the most pious believer still wrestles with that. Yeah. Right. So that's that was kind of deep.

SPEAKER_00 39:38

Yeah, yeah, it it is. And and as you mentioned, the problem of suffering is it's universal. Uh and every believer wrestles with it. Um, but our free will uh creates real consequences. And the theological um I don't know, discussion, love requires freedom, and freedom allows free choice, you know. Right. And a lot of the things that go wrong in the world um are man-made and made for profit and other motivations by people who have the power to do these things. Um and even uh the the some of the causes of nature, you could point to man in his greed causing those as well. Now, God doesn't cause evil, right? Uh, but he does work through it, you know, bringing growth to us as people as we go through it. Because nobody's gonna live a life without any worries or anything happening to them. You know, life life is too long, and it's a gift of learning because we are getting pre being prepared for uh another life. Right, and just suppose the things that we go through bring out more of faith and divinity that God has already planted into us, um not giving it all to us at once, but letting us grow through it. So when that time comes, we are fully prepared. You know, we're children of God. That right there, that term tells you something. A child does not um come into the world knowing everything, right? Nor the things that they're gonna need to be equipped for in the future. And if we are children of God, there's a lot that we need to learn to be a full adult. Right, right, you know, in in God's eyes. So yeah, that that that that doesn't happen, but you're right. A lot of people, as soon as something happens, you know, why did God allow this to happen? And it's true pain that they're going through. Uh a child dies, you know, from the disease. Why did God do this to me? Or, you know, you get that diagnosis, you know, be before you're 40. Why did you know these things happen in the world, but God is still there, right?

SPEAKER_02 42:38

All the time.

SPEAKER_01 42:39

Yeah, that that um I think that there's so I mean it's there's so many aspects to to consider when you wrestle with that question. Yeah. Because, you know, I think it really boils down to you know, in our human nature um we no matter what it is we know we fall back to emotion and it's as if time for us starts right now. Like we forget to look back, we forget to look at uh everything that has happened up until now that led to this situation. We start right here, right now. And we say, Why is this happening now? And that's an emotional thing. You know, and it's like it's it's as you said, it could be a painful situation and all you know is what's happening now. And we're we're made this way. It's not by mistake. I believe it's like you said, it's it's you know, we it unfortunately I know this might sound crass, but uh pain is a necessity. For our growth. And I am not saying that by any means to anyone who might be listening to say this is a justification for your pain. I'm not saying that. Right. I'm just saying that a life without pain is one where very little growth happens. Absolutely. Right. And so not saying, you know, I'm just saying this that's just how things are. And it's so very difficult, especially being a minister, to try and comfort someone. Knowing this on the one hand, but also empathizing with the the pain on the other and trying to, you know, console and and help someone to reconcile. And I can just tell you, um, in the midst of all that, when you're in the eye of the storm, they don't want to hear scriptures. Right? They don't come to me with no scriptures right now. Right. Right. Exactly. It's it's it's unfortunate. Um, and I and I don't have the words to express or to make it better. I'm just saying it is this is our existence, right? This is what we go through. This is how um, this is the life we have to go through.

SPEAKER_00 45:26

And yeah, and the the point is, you know, we're we're living right now in a broken world, and it's not the way it's going to be. But uh Christ in the Bible, they they they promise that uh it's going to be a new world where there will be no pain or suffering. Uh, he will wipe away every tear. Now, a lot of people might just uh see that as fantasy, but it's repeated so many times it's got to be true. And if if Christ said it being the truth and the life, I'm gonna believe it. Uh even through that suffering, like I say, in the eye of the storm, you don't want to hear scriptures, but in the eye of the storm, you still have a degree of hope. And even people who don't pray sometimes, if that storm is bad enough, oh yes, they're gonna pray. Oh, God, help me. And when you come out on the other side, you you see that that suffering has uh often produces empathy uh or resilience and spiritual depth. Can't let notification. Uh and let's not forget that uh scripture shows God present in in the suffering, he never distant or indifferent. And and Christ Himself, uh becoming human, went through the same kind of suffering. And we can identify with that. He identifies with us. So uh as some people say, hope uh will always spring eternal when you have a relationship with Christ, and that's what faith is all about.

SPEAKER_01 47:06

Well said, brother. Well said.

Keep The Book Close

SPEAKER_01 47:09

Um now you have this chapter. Before you close the book, before we uh before we close the book, are there any words you'd like to say? Anything that you want to say in summary regarding your book?

SPEAKER_00 47:23

Well, in summary, I would um like people to, as you already mentioned, uh just keep it around as a companion because uh you you everybody needs to know more. Everybody needs to know more, and and not everybody's gonna pick up the Bible, and this in no way uh supplants the Bible, right? But it gives you just enough information on the periphery so that you could understand Christ, his mission, and Christianity, and why it makes sense to take a second look if you've been in church and walked away uh for the institutional abuse or whatever you may have received from there to, but you haven't left Christ to get into to the book and you can find out a little bit more. What's in there? And since you've read it, you you could probably vouch for this. Whoever reads this book can hold their own with just about any preaching in a conversation. You agree?

SPEAKER_01 48:28

Yeah, no, I I I definitely I definitely agree, and I think to get to that point though, I'll say to to achieve that level of comfort. This is not a book you can read once. Like in fact, you you have to you have to go back and reread. Reread. Like you have to you know, because because as I mentioned, the titles themselves of the chapters will invoke emotion in you, right?

SPEAKER_00 49:04

You gotta get past that and get to the and once you get in there you say, whoa, this is a little bit more than uh you know than the title reveals. And and that was the essence of the whole book. And uh also even the theological humor breaks have a message to them. And uh the book is unique in that that manner as well. So uh I I I I think it's it it fulfilled my vision of having a a tool that everybody can can read and find out what all the hoopla is about. You know, what is this about Christianity that they may not otherwise get elsewhere in other kind of spiritual books? It's written for the person who normally won't pick up a religious book or uh a spiritual book, and he can get you know right on board.

SPEAKER_01 49:57

Very good, very good. So the last question I have for you is there anything you wish I had asked? And if so, what and how would you answer?

SPEAKER_00 50:11

Well the only thing uh I I could say uh to to that question is how has the arc of my life, what has it revealed to me? Um from the time that little young fella stepped forward and and volunteered to go into the military and through all my trials, troubles, and tribulations and uh defeats, victories. Uh what can I assess from that? And here's how I would answer it a lot of that time I didn't know what the heck was going on. Okay, I did not, especially through the 20s. Even in times when I thought when I thought I had success in in family relationships and and the times that I was that close to dying and to this very podcast, what I know for sure is that God had his hand guiding my life. He brought me here to this point for a reason. Just like what I um was told uh what Esther that perhaps he's kept me for a time such as this.

SPEAKER_02 51:53

And for that I give him glory.

SPEAKER_01 51:58

Right on, right on, okay, okay. I mean, because I get it, man. Just even to pursue a PhD right in in religious studies, um, I take my hat off to you because um that's that's heavy, you know. I mean I don't care what I know you got your PhD and all, but it's almost like saying, you know how someone um you can see the the the strongest man in the gym. But guess what? I don't care how strong you are, that gym got more weights. That's true, you know. So I know you studied, you studied for your PhD, but I'm sure the good book has a lot more.

SPEAKER_00 52:48

Absolutely, you know. Uh yeah, yeah, I got this degree. I say, okay, now I got it now. What? And that what is actually very big. You know, how do now I validate that title? And why am I motivated to do things when I could do nothing? I could just enjoy things, you know, enjoy life. But that's the way it is, and and and that's that's part of the glory too. That uh, you know, he you know he keeps you until he's done with you.

SPEAKER_01 53:28

That's a good way to

God’s Guidance And Advice To Vets

SPEAKER_01 53:29

put it, man. And I think uh, you know, I I thank you so much for coming on because uh your story um just gives it it it it validates for me that what I'm doing is worth it. Because my job or what I see my calling as far as this is concerned is to expose the world to different veterans of color because we are not all the same. We have different, you know, in interests, we we may all have a common, you know, thread in terms of what we've gone through and how it impacts us. But I'm trying to um allow the veterans to share their stories because there are not a lot of platforms that will allow you to do that for unfortunate reasons. Right, exactly. So I think that um you you coming on and and sharing your story uh and your motivations is is very helpful. So I thank you for that. And two, um, we just barely scratched the surface on on Dr. Washington, right? I mean, we we barely scratched the surface. So um if uh if you're up for it, I I would love to um have you back on and um we continue a conversation uh about any topic that you would like to expound on.

SPEAKER_00 55:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 55:06

And uh we'll just go from there if that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 55:08

Yeah, that would be okay. Uh one thing I do want to add to this conversation, because some sometimes you know you get lost in your own story and you forget that a lot of people share that story, particularly my my my brothers, you know, uh veterans. Um, because I see a lot of them at the VA, and uh sometimes you you you see maybe hope that is left. Uh you you see the the hard times and the things in life. And for some of the younger veterans, they they probably got a lot of internal questions. I would just want to say to them, be strong. Your army's strong, your Marine Corps is strong, your Air Force strong, all of these things. Keep your eyes open, your mind and your heart open to the opportunities that are there. Don't let society life, civilian life, deter you at all. Because you can be whatever you want to be. And if you got benefits, take advantage of them. Take advantage of them because they can help propel you to heights you never believe possible if you pursue it with you know positivity and also turn to prayer. You don't have to make a big deal on you know on the exterior, but you should be having personal prayer, personal conversation with God. Absolutely. You put all that together, brother. You're gonna do it, whatever it is that you plan to do. That's what uh that's the message I would like to give you. Okay, right

Closing Blessing

SPEAKER_00 57:03

on.

SPEAKER_01 57:03

Yeah, well, I think um with that said, we'll go ahead and and and close this one out. Um, another one for the books. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Dr. Washington, and um as I oh yeah, do have one of those, I don't know. Yeah, you do.

SPEAKER_02 57:25

I appreciate that. I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_01 57:27

Um, and as I always like to say to all my guests, may God keep you, may God bless you, and may God continue to be with you. Thank you, brother.

SPEAKER_02 57:39

Man