Veterans of Color: Navigating Faith, Service, and Identity in America with Gregory Henry

0:07 All right, brother Greg, you're back, I am back. You ready to go, ready to go? All right, let's jump into it. Urban Christian Veterans provides a safe place for Christian Veterans of Color to discuss the challenges you face in your daily lives. Being a person of color, to discuss the challenges you face in your daily lives. Being a person of color has its challenges. Being a Christian has its challenges. Being a veteran has its challenges. All of those factors being combined makes for a unique and sometimes difficult life experience that is seldom talked about in public forums. Thank you for tuning in to the Urban Christian Veterans Podcast.

0:47 Here's your host, d Allen Rose. Thank you, erin, for that wonderful introduction. This is D Allen Rose and you are listening to the Urban Christian Veterans Podcast. So first topic that we want to discuss today military moral injury. Are you familiar with the term? Not too familiar with it. If you could just define it and then we could go from there and emotional distress, right, that occurs when military personnel are involved in or witness events that violate their deeply held moral beliefs.

1:32 So it's, for instance, the whole thou shalt not kill, right. And then, as part of the military, you go in and you're put in a situation where you're either ordered to or you witness someone doing that, okay, and then it impacts you, um, afterwards, right, um, it could be either having to do it yourself, witnessing it, experiencing some form of you know something that goes against your moral beliefs as part of your military duty. So, and and then afterwards it just impacts and impacts you. It's an, it's an injury that stays with you after. So I guess the question is have you ever experienced anything like that?

2:18 Well, during my two tours I didn't have to see initial combat. I think the closest I came was when we were moved out to our site initially and this is during Desert Shield, desert Storm, where the buildup was occurring around December, and I was on guard duty, and a vehicle approached and, as we've been trained, I approached the vehicle, had the driver exit the vehicle and he was questioned and we were drawn, I was locked and loaded and at that time I don't think we as military personnel had to deal with IEDs as they did subsequently afterwards, subsequently afterwards.

3:04 But at that point in time I know if that gentleman had made a move, he would have caught a 5.56, without a doubt. Without a doubt. And it so happens that after we got them back into the vehicles and they exited off, not even 10 minutes later a infantry military police unit pulled up and asked us have you seen this vehicle with X individuals? They described them. It was like, yeah, they were right here. We questioned them and had them move off site and he said, yeah, we think they're gathering information and then they took off after him. Now I don't know whatever came of that, but it is what it is.

3:46 But I think during that time, if, if I was brought forth to Actually let off rounds, then it would have been a hesitation, because then it's a case of, you know, protecting myself, protecting my fellow soldiers to the right and to the left of me, so I don't think it would have been any apprehension. And he actually was decorated for rescuing quite a few individuals because his moral code did not allow him to kill individuals.

4:29 And I wish, I wish I could recall his name, but there was a movie made of this gentleman, and how. Yeah, I saw that movie, I think, with me. As far as engaging in combat, it wouldn't have hurt my moral code, but doing something outside of an initial engagement so, in other words, if we would have went through we swept the area and say there were little kids right there, I wouldn't have just, you know, you see, in movies they would have just killed off innocent people like that, doing something like that.

5:10 Or you see guys come through and maybe raping women or or something, um, you know, sinister as such, involved in anything like that. But I think if it was something that happened outside of the initial combat, it'll affect you, because right now people are suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder, ptsd, and having to deal with things. I still remember things from being over there. There was a young Kuwaiti girl, I remember, who had been evacuated to one of our combat mass hospital who had been stabbed by Iraqi soldier.

5:54 Now she received treatment at the point of where she was and then where I was, the mass hospital was the main mass hospital and where I was, the MASH hospital was the main MASH hospital. So if you had severe traumas or very serious surgeries before they could evacuate you to Lawn Stool, they would bring you there. So you had a lot of the serious trauma incidents occurring and being brought back there so so let me so you, so this was you, said this girl, she received these injuries. Um, like, I'm assuming, first you see the injuries and then questions come how did this happen?

6:39 You know that kind of thing like, describe that, like, how does that process work? Well, we ended up there at the hospital because it was almost like a humanitarian thing. This was toward the end, when we had really we had switched from Desert Shield to Storm, which was a big sweep of all the forces going in, and we were told, our command was told that there was some children up there and just to go and lift their spirits. You know, they bring them candy, that type of thing. I was giving them out candy because they didn't need candy. I would give them regular food, but it was. It was to go there and lift, lift their spirits and for whatever reason this young girl took to me.

7:24 She wasn't interacting with anybody else, but she interacted with me for whatever reason. And I remember the first time I see her I still see her she was laying on the bed and very quiet For her age. From what they said her age was, she was very small in stature, okay, very small in stature compared to a healthy child that you would see in the United States or Europe or you know anywhere. And I remember the scar that came down her abdomen. This is from you know, I guess, where they went in for surgery and everything. I remember seeing the scar right there, yeah, so yeah, it was, and she wasn't the only one I saw.

8:16 I saw on my way up north I saw a body that was hit by one of our tank rounds where they were just burned. And at that time you know if, if, if, there was any type of GPS. You know it was like your special ops guys who had it, delta seals, you know Rangers, they had it. And you know, in the desert it's flat, there's nothing there, so you don't have any reference. So when you, if you were going on a trip or something, you had to get back before it got dark because you hadn't had no reference there. So I remember we were going, we were making a run to Hafer Abaddon and, uh, I remember coming through the city because they were bringing prisoners back in that area and that's where they were staging prisoners.

9:08 And we were going through the city, going past Alphabarn, going to King Khalid Military City, kkmc, and they had brought this truck back and the body was still in it and me and my partner we jumped out to look at it. I had taken a picture when we were on the way back, but not going up. I think we were just stunned just to see just a black burnt body. It's almost like it was frozen and we knew we had to go. So we just looked at it and just kept it moving. And you know those things stick with you and you think about Is it worth it?

9:53 You know all this killing and is it really necessary? Necessary? I think it's so glamorized here on television, whether you're watching Full Metal Jacket or Saving Private Ryan or whatever the show is. And I tell people, when you hear around, it ain't like TV, right, right. If a grenade lands about 20 feet from you, you catching something, it ain't no falling down and getting back up and keep running.

10:38 And no, that ain't reality. That's not reality. And I realized that. I remember the first time. You remember when we went through basic training and you had to go through the portion where you had to throw the grenade. Oh man, I remember when we were in the cover bunker and the person was downrange throwing a grenade, it was kicking sand hitting the top of that bunker. So that stuff you see on TV it's not reality. It's not reality, not at all. But to answer the question, the stuff does stay with you and you're going to have to just temper whatever goes on in the course of war, whether you're going to do it or not.

11:22 If you sign up especially if you're in a combat arms type of MOS, which is a job function and we're all trained to fight but more than likely, if you're 11, Bravo or any of the 11 series, you're going to, more than likely, see combat action and you're going to have to come to grips with. You know, will I be able to engage? How will I act? And I think no one can answer that question until it actually happens. But I believe if it would have come to that point, I would have engaged because Because obviously I wasn't on the walk, I am right now, but even if I was, you're still going to have to come to grips of whether you're going to engage and I think even people back then, whether it was World War I, II, Korea, Vietnam to Korea, Vietnam, who were on that walk and had made a profession of faith, who were there in combat and, more than likely, killed people.

12:33 That's something they would have to rectify. You know the Bible talks about David and Saul when they asked you know, have you heard about the thousands that Saul has killed? And then have you heard of the 10,000 that David has killed? So something has to be coming to grips with yeah, I was going to ask you, like you know, how you personally reconcile something like that that one and then two, how do you, how do you, I guess, advise someone else that may be dealing with that? that whole moral injury, um, situation, Um before this this started, you asked me if I was going through my VA process and I was and I just recently had a PTSD C&P exam and the psychiatrist she was talking to me and she said you really need to go and talk to somebody.

13:38 When we came in, you and I came in around the same time, there was a perception of the health of the VA that it was subpar. Now, over the years, it has definitely gotten better, but there's still. It's a matter of who you get. To some extent you might get somebody who's great. You might get somebody who's just trying to pass the time and hit a checkbox. It's all on who you get. And that question was asked to me and I said I just talked to my military compadres because they understand my military compadres, because they understand.

14:26 Maybe sometime down the road I will make a an effort to go and actually talk to somebody, but that's that's how I deal with it. I'll talk to some old army buddies, yeah, yeah, and that's how I reconcile with that. Okay. So as far as if someone came to you and said you know, I did this thing while I was in and it's bothering me, maybe it's guilt, you know. Whatever the case may be, what advice would you have for them?

15:37 Well, first off, I probably try to take them to scripture and try to findit information from people that I know who have gone and talked to them and see if you can gain that same type of results. Yeah, I think it's not that I'm against you talking to somebody, because in the last probably 10 years the term of mental health has been a big issue, especially with African-Americans. I think it's a big thing. There's a brother out of Detroit named Jason Wilson and he wrote a book called Cry Like a man and I would recommend that every brother read that book.

16:23 It's a very powerful book. It's a quick read. When I read that book I hadn't read a book in I don't know how many years and I finished that book in a day and a half Very quick read. Yeah, I'm glad you recommended it to me, man, when you did last time I did read it. I recommend it as well. It's a great book. There's a lot of things we as brothers we deal with whether it's from your childhood and how you grew up and the traumas of parents and possibly grandparents which is passed down, and I think sometimes you may need to have those conversations to break a cycle so that the next generation doesn't have to deal with some of the things that they deal with.

17:24 Okay, okay, okay. Well, as you go through your VA, I guess journey trying to get your, trying to get you know, achieve the goal there, which is, you know, the compensation you deserve, correct. One of the things you, if you haven't already experienced is and this is just an observation, it's a little bit off topic, but I find that the VA treatment for us is what I would call culturally tone deaf.

18:06 It does not accommodate or account for what you just said, Things that we grew up with, we experienced or have been or have learned culturally. And let me add to that, the medical community in general. I would ask that, and when I say that I'm speaking from experience, okay, okay. So yeah, I would agree 100% with your statement about the VA. Yes, most definitely, but I think the medical facility community in general Right, yeah, but I think the medical facility community in general, right, yeah, no, you're absolutely right.

18:48 And in terms of you know the topic of moral injury, specifically military moral injury, again, the VA recognizes it. The VA recognizes that it is an issue. The treatment, however, is one I think, just from experience, does not accommodate our culture and in fact, again, you know you have yet to go. I don't want to taint your view, but as you go through it you may notice, like I personally, here in Atlanta, I went through the trauma recovery program.

19:32 Okay, personally, again, I don't want to knock it, but I thought it did more harm than good. Okay, but I thought it did more harm than good. Okay, because you know just to and this is not about me, but since we're talking about it, I'll just say very quickly that my experience was that there were several times when the facilitator, who I assume mental health professional to what degree, I don't know psychiatrist, psychologist, counselor, don't know would be leading a session and say you know they give you these scenarios and ask you how you would respond.

20:19 How do you think you should respond in this situation? What do you think should happen? How should you feel? And time and time again, those of us in the room, who looked like me, who looked like us, seemed to be getting the answers wrong. And after a while, you know how it is. You start looking around the room like really you know, you make that eye contact like you know, like nah, and then finally someone spoke up and said, no, not where we grew up, not where I grew up, you know, kind of thing. That's not how we think of that or respond to that or what have you.

21:03 And so yeah, there are cultural differences. Right, but the suggested way of thinking that came to us leaned towards a culture that was not ours. Yeah, and I don't know what happens in other classes or sessions or what have you, but the one we were in. Someone spoke up, and so it just makes me think about the thousands of soldiers or veterans that go through that and that are just forced to accept this is your treatment. This is how you ought to think about this. Have a nice day. You made it through, you know?

21:45 Yeah, and so, anyway, I just thought I would toss that out. Yeah, man, it's just something to think about so you may recognize that as you move forward in your, in your, in your journey. So, okay, so uh. The next topic. Next topic current events, man, current events. So, current event right now the new Trump administration I say new because he's not even been there but a few weeks yes, is dominating the news cycles. Trump is dominating the news cycles, but even before we get to Trump and the administration in your, opinion.

22:41 How do you think Biden will be remembered before we slide into the new administration? As the saying goes, history will tell. I, at this point in time, with all of the years of government service he's had, whether you agree with everything he did or disagreed. Whether you agree with everything he did or disagreed, I think the lasting impression right now is that a elderly man whose facilities had waned and, for the good of the party, refused to step aside earlier, because I remember having this and this is not anything on anyone's age, because my father-in-law, god willing, will turn 95 on the 11th and you know he has some health issues right now, hearing whatever, but the mind, his mind is still sharp.

23:59 Okay, it's still sharp. I've talked with all the people. My mom is 79. My uncle's 80. They're sharp. My mom will go out and walk three and a half four miles. Mine's still sharp. So I think currently it would be a elderly man whose facilities had decreased and should have more than likely stepped away prior to when he did. And I remember when he was elected, me and my sons maybe jokingly said I hope he makes it to inauguration.

24:47 And this was back then right, cause we didn't know what, what. What happens if you know someone who's been elected. If you don't make it to the inauguration and we we joked about it, but we saw that you could look at him His facilities started to wane, right. So that's where I think it stands now. It may change in the future, but I think that's where it stands right now, right now. So moving forward to the current administration and everything that's happening, do you think Biden will catch some of the blame?

25:41 I'm a person. I blame everyone on Capitol Hill and let me explain to you where I'm going with this. And I've been saying this this is not Monday, monday morning quarterback If I was to bring my, my family up in here. I've been talking about this for a long time. There's only two people I give a pass to, to that young girl on the under the Trump administration who came forward I forget her name and her friend who came to back her. She was the first one who came out, 22-year-old, and gave her testimony what she saw. Okay, her and her friend. Those are the only two people I give a pass to. I'm glad Liz Cheney and everybody else on that committee came forward and they did what was right, ok.

26:27 I mean, you know, obviously you should do what was right, ok. OK. But Everyone knew what it was. Ok, whether you're a Democrat or Republican, I look at things from a different eye. I pick things out. I look at your history. So let me break down the history, the things that were done. As far as whether it's renting, we know about the Central Park Five he had with the fee for service schools that he did the his bankruptcy.

27:16 I think he's had six and right now, if I want to go out and get a loan, I feel, because of where my credit is, I can go to any financial institution and get a loan. If I wanted to that's within my means he could not get a loan from any US financial institution. Let me say that again. Here's a suppose. A billionaire at that time, maybe a high multimillionaire could not receive maybe a high multimillionaire could not receive any financial backing from any US institution, and the institution that finally gave him back was Deutsche Bank, which has been riddled with penalties for the last 10, 15 years.

28:02 So you have that. If you recall, when he was elected the first time, there was about, I believe, 20 individuals that when the security clearance background checks, came back. It came back with a hard no. A hard no. And you and I, because where we went to school, we both had security clearance. I've had a security clearance more of my life than I have not, and that's from secret all the way up to top secret with identifiers after that. Ok, so I've had, I've held, a security clearance more of my life than I have not. So that, and then I look at the people around them. How many people got convicted of something?

28:43 People around him? How many people got convicted of something, of something and had to be pardoned? You look at whether it was what they say white collar crimes. There were crimes. The people around him that he's bringing into office or on a Supreme Court. There's sexual discrepancies around these people. You as a father, if your child you find is hanging with a person who has sexual discrepancies, other people that are getting in trouble, getting pulled over by the police and this, and that you're going to step in as a father and say, no, I don't want you around these folks.

29:36 So I'm looking at all these things going on and it brings that saying birds of a feather flock together. You know, and there was a quote by Nikita Khrushchev, I think the late 50s, who said we will take down the US without firing one shot. And there was a KGB agent back in, I think, 84 who defected and he said we are going through what is called ideological subversion.

30:17 And part of that first step is that, even though the information out there you can find and find the facts about it, you can lie and put disinformation out there and people they're not going to believe it, they're going to believe the disinformation. And that first step of that ideological subversion, that's something you go and read about it ideological subversion, Okay, and what it is. And I think that's matter of fact. We're past this stage, we're into the next stage.

30:59 Because if you watch the debate, if he came on the TV and I'm debating, I'm saying hey, they're eating cats and dogs and there's no evidence of that. Everybody's saying it's not happening. Hey, they're eating cats and dogs. And people are like, yeah, he said it, they're eating cats and dogs. Hey, he says the moon is made of cheese, it really is. And people are like, well, he said the moon is made of cheese and if he said it, it is. So my thing, with all of this number one, control what you can control.

31:43 With all of this number one, control what you can control. There's a saying the eye is a window to the soul, and it's almost based on scripture, but it's not really stated that way. It's like the light of the body is the eye. That's the first part of that verse the light of the body is the eye. So whatever you're bringing in in that's affecting you. I heard this brother on social media. He says your five senses affect you, whether it's what you're bringing through your eyes, your smell, your hearing, what you're listening to, the music that you're listening to, the things that you are online looking at, all of that affects you.

32:28 So you have to temper that, Not saying be unaware of what's going on, but you have to temper the foolishness and control what you can control. This is a perfect example. I heard a brother say you should have different streams of income always coming in. And I do not as not to the point where I would be very comfortable, and I'm working on that be very comfortable and I'm working on that, but this is a perfect reminder that you know we should be talking to our kids hey, as you move through this world, make sure you have in different streams of income.

33:15 You might have your, your regular job. But hey, get some real estate, get some rental properties. Um, do some trading in the stock market. Always have different things going, because this is ridiculous. I could tell you right now the public, you're not getting the whole story. It is far worse than what is being put out. It's far worse than what's being put out. Yeah, a wrathful man stirs up strife During the buildup even to the election. I think you had an individual who was very he felt he was highly slighted by the public.

34:05 You know, started from the previous administration where he was impeached twice and then everyone bringing charges against him and getting him convicted. And I give him this one thing he said what he was going to do and he's doing it. A lot of people did not believe him. But when you get an individual who can be petty, who can be vengeful, who wants to get his get back, this is what you have.

34:46 This is what you have when you slight someone. Sometimes, especially when you a person who is very prideful and feel that they're always the center of attention when they walk into a room and you can cut at them and you can get people to laugh at them. Yeah, they're going to want to get their get back and he's getting his get back. It's a perfect example of almost like Blitzkrieg, lightning war.

35:26 You get hit with everything from each direction, or think about it of a great boxing match and you walk in there and say you walk into the ring with Mike Tyson at his height and he has you on the ropes and you know your corner is yelling counter, counter, cover up, counter, counter. But you're just getting it, he's just giving it to you. Ain't nothing you can do about it? That's what we're in right now. We're against the ropes, we're trying to cover up, but we're taking shots left and right. So what do you say, man, about? I mean everything you just said, right? What do you say to the diehards that just are like, I'm with them?

36:14 Oh, okay. Well, in any organization you're going to have shortcomings of individuals or people we used to call in the military people who like to sham OK, they like to get over. In any organization. I could go to any organization, university, wherever and you're going to find that in every organization. But for the most part most government workers they do what they're supposed to do. For the most part, they do what they're supposed to do. What you need to be looking at are those individuals over those committees, that's, over those agencies, because the people know what the work has to be done.

36:58 But anytime you have a change in administration, they're going to bring in their ideology and then you have to switch and the worker bees we just doing what we're instructed to do, because this is the vision of the new administration, this is the direction we have to move into. So for the people who are saying yeah, we need to do that, of course we need to streamline things. That's always that's in any business. You can always find ways to better what you're doing. So that aspect of it is not incorrect, but the way that you're going about it is very much incorrect.

37:39 Okay, so a lot of people they might say that because they're not getting affected yet, but stand by because your mom or your grandma or somebody, if they start messing with social security or some type of aid or something, then you might get affected then. So be careful. Be careful when who you perceive as your enemy is down and you start to laugh at them. Let's God see that and turn that on you. Be very careful so the, I guess the move to end all of the um, all of the, the government dei programs and any references to them.

38:31 what are your thoughts on that? It ain't affecting us. And when I say us, you know what I mean. I'm talking the people, because we could go back to affirmative action. And the studies show this number one white female. Then you have Latino white males, people with disabilities, the LGBTQ community and then there's us. But I think when DEI yeah, depending on the list, I've heard from fifth to seventh, but we're definitely not at the top.

39:17 So, even to affirmative action again the people who actually benefited more were white females, because females are a minority and these are programs geared toward minorities, not black folks, just black folks. And I think when everybody says DEI, the first image is black people. I'll give you an example. If you're familiar with the last few years, the Asian community brought lawsuits because they felt that not enough of them were getting into the Ivy League schools. But I saw a report I think Yale, harvard, and I believe the other one was Princeton where the black acceptance rate for the past year was just about the same.

40:07 I think Yale was probably 0.2% lower, but the other schools was just about the same. The acceptance rate for the Asians had actually dropped. The acceptance rate for the Asians had actually dropped. So instead of I think the report said, instead of going against affirmative action, it shouldn't have been affirmative action because there were, there was legacy people whose parents or grandparents had gone to the school and they gave them up to come into school. That was the higher percentage of people actually come getting into the school because of that legacy benefit. But with, I think with us you look back at our history we going to keep doing what we need to do.

40:51 We always feel we have to do twice as much, three times as much to get some type of benefit, the same benefit. We're going to constantly do what we need to do, so we're not going to stop. So, whether you take this program away or that program away, if you're responsible, you're going to still teach your children about black history. Anytime our boys was coming up and they had to do a report, we always picked some person in black history for them to do the report on, so that if they were one of a few in the class, they were educating the students on this history.

41:32 And I ain't talking, it wasn't just Martin or Banneker or anything. We picked somebody that you would not even really hear about for them to do a report on. You know. I think that's awesome and I think, in addition, one of the questions I have is why is it that you know in terms of history? Why do people from our community hold these ivy league schools in such high regard? Like, what is the? What is the draw to an ivy league school, specifically from an historical perspective? Because if you know how they started, yeah, my question is would you still be clamoring to get into this school knowing how it started?

42:22 it's conditioning. Uh, think about the, the ugly doll test that comes up about every 20 years and the results are still the same. It's conditioning it. It's what's put out there. Light is right, black is bad. You know it's all conditioning, it's opening up doors. I could tell you my boys never wanted for anything but the connections they've made through their schools.

43:03 My youngest went to Southern Cal, my oldest went to Vanderbilt. Those connections I couldn't give them. Okay, and opportunities. And when I say opportunities, opportunities in business and networking because young people realize once you get into school and yes, you have your degree and everything and you start to move up, then it becomes it's not about what you know, it's who you know, it's those relationships, it's those connections. And some of those schools hold high connections. If you're moving into the business world, like, say, if you're in investment banking, consulting, then those schools they have the connections to help you move up.

43:48 So it's to answer your question, it's all about conditioning, not saying you can't go to a Morehouse or a Howard University, hu, you know, or Hampton or FAMU or Grambling or Jackson State, that you can't make it out of there, because there's a lot of people who've gone through those schools. One of Donovan's friends, he went to school with the SCs. Father went to Morehouse and he owns his own private equity firm. Father went to Morehouse and he owns his own private equity firm. So it's not saying you can't do it. But I think we probably feel that if we can go through those schools and you know that resume comes across someone's desk and they see the Harvard or Yale or or Penn you know it's going to be an easier move to get going.

44:45 But I'm at the point where I think if these folks continue to double down and triple down and I thought we were going to actually see it Let me preface what I'm about to say with this I think we all it has been proven in society and business that when you get people from different facets of life, different cultures, and you bring them together, that you create an environment, a company that will excel exceedingly more if you do that.

45:26 But with that said, my brother-in-law many years ago said to me that the ending of segregation hurt black people and I was like and at that time I was like man, what are you talking about? You don't know what you're talking about. Come on, man, what are you talking about? But in my years of living now and studying and understanding what his main point was, to summarize it, it was like when we had to go to each other if, brother Rose, if you were a tailor and I needed something tailored, I will come to you.

46:11 That's building your business and I will always come to you. If I was a mechanic and you needed your car fix and I had to come here, then you'll build me and we're recirculating those dollars within our community. Right. And it was making us strong. We all know about Tulsa, Oklahoma, but there was more than Tulsa, Right, but there was more than Tulsa where there were many cities of black folk who were striving. And you remember when? I've always had this thought from the late 70s, late 70s, going all the way into early 2000s.

46:58 I'll use this example all the way into early 2000s. I'll use this example the University of Miami has placed the most players into the NFL because a lot of the talent pool was coming from that dividing line which Schellenberger took from Orlando going to Tampa south, and those guys they recruited heavily to go to the University of Miami. Now think what if all of that talent had gone to, say, Grambling or Southern or Howard University or Hampton or Alabama State, Pick your HBCU.

47:45 Imagine if that talent was either concentrated at one of those schools or distributed amongst the schools where those HBCUs because usually the primary white institutions they're earning between 20 to $50 million a year because of athletics. So instead of in in these national championship games, instead of seeing the Alabamas and the Georges and whoever, then you would have been seeing some of these other schools and I don't know. Well, I think, though, what so wouldn't that same argument be made that you made a minute ago regarding the connections?

48:25 Yeah, I. But you see, I think what happens at HBCUs we don't have the resources. When my boys were going to school, I remember touring Alabama because obviously at that time we were living in Alabama and their dorms that were, let's say, five years old looked way better than some of the dorms if you went to HBCU, I mean, and they still looked new. The alumni I think she was from General Dynamics, I, she was from General Dynamics, I believe it was General Dynamics or Lockheed, I can't remember she had given the school like $15 million.

49:07 Hbcus aren't getting money in like that. If you go on the university and I'm not picking on Alabama, I'm just using an example If you go onto that campus, it's a beautiful campus. If you go into any of the facilities, it's awesome. Well, with services, finances bring services and I try to point this out to my sons I would be driving around and we'll go through a more affluent neighborhood. I said look what you see here, look at the walk paths, look at the shops that you have.

49:47 When you go into certain stores, look, look what you have Cash, those quick cash places, liquor stores, fast food joints, you know, because they don't have the resources to come forth. I noticed during COVID I'm online and people saying man, we ain't getting stuff. And I walked in this store. I don't know if y'all have this store called Sprouts, it's like a farmer's market thing, and you know the regular grocery stores, you walked in, their shelves were bare, I was like man, I was coming from Costco, my Costco run, because I was the only one going out during that time getting stuff and I stepped in Sprouts man, do you know when?

50:43 I walked in that door. I looked to the back. All the greens and the vegetables, everything was loaded up, all the shelves were packed, because it's in a place called Colleyville, texas, right now. So Colleyville, it has money. It's South Lake, colleyville, grapevine, you know, these places have money. So I walked in I said look at this here I'll say this A lot of people complain about egg prices because I believe I'm in a red state. I walk into the Brookshires, yeah, the prices are a little elevated, but I guarantee you I ain't been paying no prices that I've seen on TV. That's for sure.

51:24 That is for sure. Sprouts look sprouts. Even smells different when you walk through it. Man it smells fresh. It's totally different, man, so I tried to explain them. Hey, when you have, when you're at a financial level, you get different type of services, and this is what you're seeing right now. Just about everybody in this cabinet are billionaires, except for, I think, three individuals and a lot of the things going on. They're going to appease to their base, which is that class of people.

52:13 We're not in the same class. So the Elon and his chainsaw right like just just cutting and firing all these federal employees, like I saw some stat today, um 30 percent of all federal employees are veterans and so in the last six weeks he's fired more veterans than anyone in history, any president previously in history. So what are your thoughts on that? You better be careful. It might get uncomfortable for him to walk around now.

52:54 But I'm kidding, but I'm really not kidding Because a lot of these we've been at war since Deadest Shield, deadest Storm Guys have done multiple tours in Afghanistan, iraq and veterans count on their benefits more than likely, they count on their jobs to support. And you might get guys who you know, who might be walking a tightrope. And I'm not trying to bring any disparage or anything on anybody, but be careful because you got guys who are very experienced in combat who are on a bubble and it's a shame man.

53:54 Most veterans they come in here they're trying to do their work, they're trying to live. They're trying to do their work, they're trying to live, man, they're trying to live Now. Think about that's already been done Now the pending 80,000 from the VA by August or something. That's a lot of people, man. That's a lot of people, man. And I know veterans complain about certain services as far as, especially on the benefit side, and if you cut that and you're already having issues, you're creating a kettle that's about to blow.

54:38 A lot of the firings may be not hearing. Some people had to be brought back. There was a lady who had to be brought back, a high-ranking person over I forget the agency, but a judge ruled she had to be brought back. The nuclear regulatory agency. You saw folks who were removed and had to be brought back. So there's no particular rhyme or reason how they're doing this. It's just like, well, I don't know, let's remove all these people because there's been no information put out there that shows okay, this is why we release all these people.

55:31 Here's the cost savings. None of that has been done. None of that has been shown. It's almost like it's willy nilly. It's just like when he went into X and fired all those people and it was an uproar. He had to end up doing what Bringing them back the platform took. They lost how many billions of dollars when that happened and I think what's happening here you're going to go ahead and you're going to create such a disruption. You hear about a lot of the buildings possibly being sold. I would say look at who's buying the buildings, right, because then if you get voted out and you got to come back and try to get those buildings, then you're going to have a bunch of court.

56:27 We're going to have court cases for the next three years. People sued and I believe most of the workers that have been fired. I think they're going to win in court. It's going to take some time, but I believe they're going to win in court. It's going to take some time, but I believe they're going to win in court because there's no cause and you'll have to prove why they were removed and your so-called cost savings, and you probably won't be able to show that. So you're not going to be really saving the public any money, because now you're going to have to back pay all those people probably paying money on top of that for suffering or whatever else is going on, but do you think they'll win though, given that a lot of the courts are friendly to the administration?

57:18 I believe most of the cases will win. Okay, I believe most of the cases will win. Okay, I believe most of the cases will win. If they don't, I think everyone in Congress needs to look at this, and this is something I've thought of for many years. It's a few things. It's three, maybe four things that needs to occur. I believe they need to add to the the criteria for president. You cannot be a convicted felon Number one. I need, I need that. That needs to be added because we grew up in a DMV of guys who, for whatever reason, did something, and rightfully so.

58:06 They had to pay the time. He has 34 convictions so he's a convicted felon, he just was not. I do not know the legal terminology that the judge used, but he the point is, he chose not to have him serve any jail time. Right, he was never sentenced. Yes, To any time. They were waiting until after the election. It's on this record. So I say that is that you got some guys who can't even get a job regular office work trying to better themselves because they did something in their youth, because they have a felony 34 sexual I don't know.

58:59 They didn't say sexual assault, but there's some type of sexual innuendo that he was found in and he's holding the highest position probably in the world as it stands right now. So that's number one. You cannot be a convicted felon Number one. Number one you cannot be a convicted felon Number one. Number two I believe there should be limits on the time you can on the Supreme Court 20, 25 years and rotate them out.

59:45 I don't think it should be a lifetime appointment ruled on this. That allowed all these companies to be given money, these packs, these super packs. I think they need to do away with all of that. And if you're going to get contributions, let it come from the individual people and that'll force the politicians to really hit the ground and really go and see the people and take out these business interests. And we could even add another one, the fifth one get rid of lobbyists.

1:00:29 That will really force politicians to do their due diligence. So, number one, you cannot be a convicted felon and hold the highest office of president. Number two, it should be time limits put on the people who serve in Congress. Number three, the people who serve on the Supreme Court. Number four get rid of these super PACs and PACs. Take away these companies giving money to these politicians on both sides.

1:01:10 And possibly, number five, the lobbyists. Gotcha, gotcha. So this possible elimination of the Department of Education, right? So I'm reading that the education secretary I think her name is Linda McMahon has a mandate from Trump to close it down. Close it down, and Trump wants to return the power of education over to the states, but at the same time trying to put new diversity program requirements on any school receiving funds, right.

1:01:54 So it's like he's wanting to shut down the Department of Education, but then any school that steps out of line, you don't get funding either, right at the state level. So what are your thoughts on the Department of Education going away? I don't believe it should go away, but I think it needs to be fleeced. Okay, I think we need to. I'm a big person of like if I see somebody doing something and it's really working, I'm going to try to mimic that. I believe I ain't going to work harder. You know what I'm saying.

1:02:35 Look at Sweden, denmark, pick a country, singapore, japan, how they're teaching. Maybe we need to look at that a little closer and try to mimic that. I looked at a study many years ago. They took some top students from Europe. They took some top students from Northern Virginia, the cream of the crop, and they gave them a test. All the kids from Europe got over 90. The highest was an Indian kid from India, indian heritage.

1:03:18 He scored the highest. He got a 64. Now, northern Virginia I'm talking like Fairfax you know Fairfax County, leesburg, you know those are cream of crop. Montgomery County, maryland you know always been, you know those counties 64. So maybe we need to look at what's going on. There was this. I was looking at the news and there was this lady. This was in Kentucky and she voted for Trump and she said well, if he does these cuts, we're going to hurt. I'm going to have to fire this superintendent.

1:03:58 I'm going to have to fire teachers and cut programs. Well, you cut your nose to spite your face. Did you not think you would be affected? Right. And a lot of people talk about vouchers and this and that, but they don't say well, you can have this money to go to the school of your choice. Okay, how are some of these kids in the city going to get to these locations? Are they going to have money to have lunch? And this is something I learned when I was in Alabama A lot of these kids that are going to these schools, their only meal for the day is that lunch that they get at school, and I did not know that.

1:04:42 Oh yeah, and I found out. That's the only meal some of these kids are receiving. A lot of people if you, if you're at a certain status level, you have no idea what's going on and you're only speaking from what you see around you, because that's your exposure. A great way to see people's exposures Look at their Facebook friends. Just scroll through your Facebook friends. If you don't see any diversity there, then maybe you need to take a look at yourself. Okay, okay, I know. So what about the mass deportation?

1:05:27 Just effort? What are your thoughts on that? I'm just sitting back chilling watching the whole thing. Try to tell you, man, you know, okay, no, no. But seriously, all jokes aside, um number one if you look at where a lot of the deportations are happening, there are a lot of blue states not saying it's not happening in red, but the there are a lot of blue states Not saying it's not happening in red, but the predominant of it is in blue states.

1:06:09 So it's like a guy who's felt he's slighted, he's going to hit back at you. California just experienced this is just a segue wildfires and flooding and I don't know if those funds to California are moving at a swift pace Gotcha I understood Right. So it's unfortunate, I believe, if you are coming from another country and we hear the saying we are a country of immigrants, which we are, and you are coming here to really try to work hard, because most, most people coming from here, from outside of the United States, they just looking for opportunity.

1:06:57 They truly are and they're going to come and work. Yes, there is a criminal element that you know gets in as well, but most people are really just trying here to make a better life for themselves. You know I have family who came here from South America. You know I have family from other parts of the islands came here. I have family from other parts of the islands who came here and when you look at my family, we have a hope on both sides my mother and father's side. We have a lot of educators and we have a lot of medical folks. So it's not like people came here and slouched Right, but for the most part, a lot of people are trying to make a way for themselves now.

1:07:44 For those who thought they were going to do better by 4-7, there's a saying you reap what you sow. You reap what you sow. And, right, you reap what you sow and it's unfortunate. It's unfortunate. So you do reap what you sow. If you had the opportunity to talk to someone who perhaps did vote for the current administration but is now at a democratic town hall saying what are you going to do for us?

1:08:29 What would you say to that person? I say go, stand in the corner. Look it goes back to what I said at the beginning. There's only two people I give a pass to Everybody Democrats and Republicans on that hill. Some of them are lawyers. You saw this coming. They gave you a playbook for what was coming. Right. You should have prepared and, instead of trying to play political lines, y'all really should have did some legislating, because maybe this is an eye opener and I'm speaking of Democrats and Republicans maybe, for the kids that don't want to work and legislate, put them in a corner, don't give them a a voice, and y'all do what needs to be done, because you can't be crying about spilled milk and you were told this.

1:09:46 How many videos you've seen about people? You go and talk to them and said well, trump is going to do this. Well, he said he was going to do this, but this is what he actually did, and they don't have no recourse for that. You're giving them the truth, but they ain't trying to hear it, for whatever reason. For whatever reason and, um, I don't want to see bad on anybody, cause I ain't messing up my blessings for nothing. I ain't laughing at nobody. I'm just sitting back and I'm in observed mode. I'm just observing.

1:10:27 I would say to that person hey, hey the thing is, I agree with you in terms of you don't want to see bad on anyone. However, sometimes the uh, the bad is the only message they receive it's just like if you've talked to your children and you've told them time and time again and I think the perfect example don't touch that stove, it's hot. Right. Right, hey, don't touch that stove, it's hot, right?

1:11:10 You keep on now and they keep on, and then they get burned. Now you're going to come in, come here, let me fix this. You know they might hear it, but you're going to come in, let me fix this. You know they might hear it, but you're going to take care of them. But we told you don't touch the stove yeah, you know, and I think that it's I'm chiming in on this particular point because it's, like you said, right, in terms of the diversity, facebook, I think a pretty diverse, you know um list of quote-unquote friends, whatever, um, and I I see, I see what they say and some are diehard and my thing is I don't engage, right, I just observe, I observe, yeah, I don't engage, I just observe.

1:12:08 But as I'm observing, I am like I've come to the conclusion that you won't see another way until it impacts you. Right, you won't see another way until it impacts you. Yeah Right, you won't see another way until it impacts you. And some are so diehard that they will. Literally, I just can imagine them saying what they're saying in the unemployment line. Right, they will be saying what they're saying in at the food pantry, as they're receiving free food. This is Obama's fault. Obama did it. This is his fault.

1:12:49 Right, they will continue to say what they're saying, and it's not until you know, and it's not just that. There's plenty of examples of just people in general being hard-headed until they go through something that allows them to see things from a different perspective. Is all I'm saying. Yeah, you know because yeah, and so I don't wish it. Yeah, it's this D Rose man. This is just a mess. So to keep One thing especially both of us are over 50. I try to keep my peace. That is very paramount to me.

1:13:30 I don't like arguments, I don't like unrest, I just like my peace. And I understand as I'm I've. I heard this from an older gentleman when I was younger and I didn't really understand it, but now I understand it. I just want my peace. Right. So to keep my peace again, your senses affect you, so I stay aware, aware, but I I'm still moving brother. I'm controlling, moving brother. I'm controlling what I can control. I'm trying to take care of this on this side. I'm trying to get this in place Because I look at, I told my son the other day he's home here because he had surgery two weeks ago to do some bone spurs on his hip.

1:14:19 So we had him have the surgery here so we could take care of him. And I said you know what Both of you are doing well in your jobs, in society. You graduated college, you did what you're supposed to do, but I feel, as your father, I'm still the foundation to steady right now to ensure that you guys are on your way, because you know, right now, if something happens happens, you know mom and I can step in. You know, help out, you know. So we are the steady. And, uh, I just to let you know, I was on my way of preparing for my next step. You know I had started that process.

1:15:00 I got 24 months left. Okay. And you know. And then all this stuff started happening, you know. So I was like you know, greg, you sleep Because I was actually trying to do a defer retirement myself because of an opportunity I came across with a partner of mine served in the military who created his own company in Saudi Arabia and I was looking at that opportunity. But because of some of the parameters on a deferred retirement, I decided to wait on that so I could tell you right now, if this was the year I was turning 57, which is my minimum retirement age, because I have over 30 years, so that would have put me at 34.

1:15:50 It's my plan the year I turned 55, god willing is to step out December 31st. If this was that year and they came with that offer look at here your brother would have been like what are you going to do? What I could take this early? I could go and sit on my tail, my butt, until September and possibly December, if I get a waiver and get paid this. This is just like terminal leave when we're in the military. You try to get that job and still getting paid for the military, and then you can start this. Oh, look at here, and there's people in the agencies who've done it.

1:16:31 You're saying what I can retire and you're going to pay me. So think about that. You're supposed to be saving money, but you're going to pay this person nothing. I mean you're going to pay him to do nothing. Bruh, they can miss me with the whole saving money thing. It's because your records show that you haven't done that. Both Musk when he had Zip and he fired from that and then PayPal and he was about to get removed from that but he had so much in shares and money that he shifted that to, at that time, twitter and was able to come into that.

1:17:18 And then I'm seeing, I'm seeing stories about them, and then I'm seeing stories about them, these deportation flights with the C-130s with nine people on them. Yes, Matter of fact, on that, I wanted to cover that. Let me see I have written something down the Afghanis who had helped US military forces they have stopped their paperwork for a because and also there is a write up where they say Trump is to revoke the legal status of 240,000 Ukrainians.

1:18:03 You know, I was just getting ready to ask you about him siding with Russia and versus the NATO, versus Ukraine, as a veteran. How does that? How does that? Let me preface by saying number one I never thought we should be doing any type of business with Russia. Let me get that out of the way. I've never thought. Number one, number two I never thought we should. Number one. Number two I never thought we should be doing any type of business with China Before. If you looked at from the eighties, we had a relationship as far as for products. They were coming out of India. A lot of people in tech, software people they're coming out products created.

1:18:45 It was India during that time period. Then it switched to China. Because what businesses are going to do we are in a capitalistic society they are going to get the cheapest labor force that they can get so they can maximize profits on their product. Okay, but I think everyone should be really take politics out. If you really call yourself a patriot. Everybody needs to start paying attention with everything going on with Putin. We really need to start paying attention with everything going on with Putin.

1:19:27 We really need to start paying attention. That little statement from Nikita Khrushchev back in the late 50s where he said we will take down the US without firing a shot people need to really start paying attention to that. Here's the thing, though I don't think it's a matter of not paying attention. I think just those who are just going so hard for this, I think there is a segment of the population that accept it willingly, yeah, and furthermore, you know I'm going to make this statement, but a lot of people, when I say this, they're not listening and at first they think that I'm being negative.

1:20:16 But I'm going to say that someone deserves their props for, I guess, the long game that they played, because they did it with excellence. Right, they played the long game, yeah, and it's coming to fruition. It started decades ago, something you know. It's props. You did it. It's called ideological subversion, please look that up, brother. And when? I read it ideological subversion with the Palestinians and the Jews over there, where they took over 15 years to infiltrate pager companies to plant bombs in those pages for that one time to set them off.

1:21:13 Right yeah, that was that's patience. That's the long game. Now here's the thing, though, this is you know, this is. This goes all the way back to the Art of War right, and you know the story of how right Sun Tzu, sun Tzu, sun Tzu, sun Tzu how. you know the story of, I guess how did they say sterilizing the women of the enemy such that they could not reproduce over time, and so we're going to lose now, but next generation.

1:21:54 We got you Because you won't have any men to defend you, and so that's some diabolical patience right there, and I think that you know. think about again us growing up man think about how um television programming has changed and what it has done to our community, right, just the media television program, how it has dumbed us down and it is causing. Not only dumbed us down but look at what it's, look at the imagery that is happening to our males, black men imagery.

1:22:39 You know I tease my wife. I tease my wife all the time and she's going. You know she knows if when she listens to this she knows I tease her all the time because she'll I don't watch tv neither do I, unless she's watching something and I come sit down or whatever and she likes to watch these. You know, I tease her about these shows that have this high heart pounding action, like all of these, these action shows, right, and then I tease her because I'm like, okay, where are the strong black characters? And when we look at those, the strong black women are subservient to some white dude, married to a white dude. The males are, you know.

1:23:22 You know, that's why I never finished that, that series um, with my sister. What is her name? Uh, what is the name that's? Everybody was on it. I didn't even watch it when it was going on. Um, oh gosh, carrie washington oh, oh, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, the um the she the president, some um the the fixer, or something yeah, I was watching that with my wife and I didn't make it to the end because and here's the reason why I didn't like how they were playing the sister. Yeah, I, I had to stop watching it. I did not finish the series. I hated how they were trying to play it.

1:24:05 But I'm sorry to interrupt you. No, no. You're right on point. And so these current, because, like there's one with I don't know something, 9-1-1. Angela Bassett is on there. Yeah, I'm like how you got the queen right. So her ex ends up being, you know, part of the alphabet community. She's now with this white dude, you know, and then all the black women are, you know, in some form of either subservient to a white dude or alphabet community. And then the black men are all right, they're all part of the community, and so it's like the strongest characters on these shows don't look like us, right, angela Bassett?

1:24:54 Come on, man. That's like Queen, right? She's supposed to be. That's why Black Panther went over so well because of the positive images. I was having this conversation with someone and I said when Obama was elected, I was under no aspirations that a lot of things were going to be done for our community because, as the saying goes, before you, you are elected, you're selected. And Donna Brazil, who was a democratic strategist, she confirmed that.

1:25:35 I saw an interview many years ago where she said before you saw him and I think it was in the 2004 convention when he gave that speech and came on the scene, he had been chosen. A few years before that she said that. Right. Before that speech she said that. But what I said to this individual, I said my boys were at an age, they were younger, they were like eight when he first got elected. To see, and what I talked about before your eyes, your senses, to see that image of that brother who is articulate, which a lot of people think that none of us could put two sentences together, but to see him articulate, to have that flow about him, have that diddy bop about him that we saw.

1:26:30 I think. Uh, those two comedians did a thing where you know he was going down the line shaking hands, and you know he was, you know the brothers or whatever. He would come and you know, give him the dap and then, if it was a white person, he would just, you know, stand off, shake the hand but yeah keen appeal, yeah, but to see how he carried himself, how he conducted himself how he can, when he went in and debated the republican congress and he just demolished them when he was on the debate stage. He demolished them and suffered the first debate against Mitt Romney. That image was good for them, anyone their age and anyone a few years older than them.

1:27:16 And then you saw Trump, and so what occurred there? Then you saw Biden. Now that generation is seeing Trump again. So to get that image of him, I think that was the most important thing, whether you agree with politics or what he didn't get this for us or he didn't get I think the most important thing was for young, especially young black men and young women, to see that positive image of that black man. I think that was very paramount and very important.

1:27:57 You know. What's unfortunate, though, is look at how many years ago that was Right, because time flies. Yeah, right, and and so now, where's the image now? Where's the imagery now? And you know, even if you, if you watch just the media, not even the shows, but like the news media, right, who where? Where are the? Where they at right, like, where's, where's the? Where's the strong black anchor, male anchor that you know, and before I get canceled, I'm not, it is what it is but one who's not part of the alphabet community is there, is there one?

1:28:41 you know well they got him off um what was lamont mark hill. He wasn't an anchor, but he was a contributor and he right right stated his opinion but and they moved right they moved them off, uh, so I mean, they even went and got my girl Joy Reid. You know what I? mean yeah. So it's just we're going to keep doing what we need to do. And I saw this guy. He was part of this Project 2025 thing. He said this Since you opened the door, I'm going to say this. I know For the last probably 10 years.

1:29:26 They said but I think it's 20, 40, 42, that the white population is decreasing and they're going to be a minority in this country. On the world scale, they are already a minority. He stated that this revoking of immigration status, moving people out the country, it will help slow down the time this is him saying this, a white man. This will slow down the time of them becoming the minority, because once they become the minority, they will no longer have control.

1:30:12 That's what he said. So if that is the case and that the population is decreasing, which I believe it is, I don't. I don't believe the census as it stands. I think our numbers are higher. My personal opinion, because most black folk aren't taking a census, maybe the people that you expect to take care of, maybe you or me, but I've only taken one census in my life. I believe the numbers are larger.

1:30:52 I don't have nothing to, it's just a feeling that I have. I think the numbers are larger because when you say 2042, that's not, that's less than 20 years. I think the numbers are larger because when you say 2042, that's not. that's less than 20 years. But you know, here's the thing, though. Remember the long game? Yeah, right, and so, even mathematically, if the numbers shift, if what makes up the numbers is weakened, then that doesn't matter either. You know what I mean, yeah, and so one of the things that I very rarely do on this podcast is I very rarely speak on alphabet stuff and any of that stuff.

1:31:40 Right, and my stance on that is this I don't speak on it because when I speak opinion, those who don't agree with it will call it homophobic, and that is not the case at all. I am, I don't fear. Yeah anything. Phobia, that means a fear of something. That's what phobia means. I'm not afraid of anything. I'm simply stating a fact that, when it comes to imagery, the argument I get a lot of times is why should it matter sexual orientation if the person is good at what they do?

1:32:23 Okay, we're not disputing whether or not they are good at what they do. Don't blend the two things. I simply asked where's the representation of someone who looks like me? That is a strong image on TV, and every time there is one, they do away with them. That's indisputable. So it's not about a phobia, it's not about hating, it's not about none of that. I said what I said and that is what it is. It is what it is, and so right. And so, but where I started with the imagery, right, because I mean, if we just went back down memory lane, you can name characters that you saw up until a certain decade, and then they just were gone, and then they started trickling off, and then silence, and then bang, obama comes on the scene.

1:33:22 So we get eight years of an image. Bang, he's gone. Who's? Next. Where are they at Right? Where are they? And so that's kind of where we are. Oh well, black Panther, right, that's that was. That was a that was powerful. Uh, it was powerful and it was an injection that lasted for a good little while. But then now we're back to this. Where are they at right? The movies don't come out but once every so many years, and who knows what's coming next? But there's no constant.

1:34:03 But I can tell you what is constant it ain't us no, right, and if and if you try to move against that, you get canceled, you get moved to the side. Yeah, yeah, I think that's where people like you, people like me. You have to stay out front. You have to continue to rear up your boys away. You got to look at the powers that be and who's pushing that image?

1:34:46 And one reason why I don't watch a lot of TV. I watch more podcasts, a lot of sports podcasts, or I'll go online. There's a documentary channel, well documented. I watch on YouTube because it just it'll do engineering things, just a whole slew of things you know, more like a science, mechanical type of thing, you know that's. That's the stuff that I watch, but I I don't watch shows. If I do watch shows, it's something like you say I'll sit down with my wife. Probably the number one station in this house is hgtv and okay we'll probably watch that, or I'll watch some sporting events.

1:35:33 And even to this day I really must watch no sports, from football to basketball don't even start until probably the playoffs. I I don't even watch March Madness until Right right. Because it's just the quality of play. I just don't know. I think this year I've probably watched more football than I watched in the previous 10 years. So I think I'm on a journey of probably gaining knowledge, re-educate myself, learning why this climate is the way it is, you know, trying to get different perspectives and just moving like that.

1:36:19 And try to. My youngest son is a. He's an avid reader and if you want to debate him, you better be coming with some facts, because he will hit you with facts. I learned that last year and he made me take a look at myself. I said, well, maybe I need to start looking at some of these books and start doing a little bit more reading, because he shut me down. Oh, okay, he shut me down. So I think they're ready. I think they could stand toe-to-toe with anybody and debate politics, religion, society.

1:37:00 They're ready because they're well-informed, they travel, they have diverse friend groups. So I think they're ready. I don't worry about that aspect of them. But you are right, we have always been a subject of attack. Because that's fear. They feared Malcolm McEvers King. It's fear because we know the story, because we know the story, the quote where Harry Belafonte went to Martin and he's like you know why are you so melancholy?

1:37:51 And I'm paraphrasing why are you so melancholy? Because I'm afraid I'm integrating our people into a burning house, because their moral standard has went out the door. And that statement holds true. It really does. And I tell you, man, what's so one of the things that troubles me the most is Think about is think about us coming up the DMV, pg County, whatever, yeah, right, there are some things that are happening today in high school that would never fly, that would just that would just never fly back then.

1:38:41 And what's happening too is I recall going to my son's One was in the band, one was on the field football game, and some foolishness was happening in the stands, right, well, stands, slash cheerleaders, right. I say some foolishness, yeah, somebody's going to hate on it, whatever. But when I saw this young man prance out with these cheerleaders, right, I was like you know, I had to. My mind wouldn't accept it. At first I was like, no, that ain't, I'm not seeing that. But here's what happened the, the student body in the stands were cheering this dude on as he was, because evidently he was hitting all the moves and all they were just cheering him on.

1:39:30 I'm like when I was in high school, bruh that just. It wouldn't happen because they would be on you from the time you walked through the door to the time you walked out. We had to develop very thick skin growing up. Different people call it different. We called it joning. They would jone on you, they would jone on you and kids from that era. They were relentless, they would not let anything go. They call it bullying. Now, yeah, it's called bullying. You had to develop thick skin and you had to learn how to throw those hands and it is what it is.

1:40:15 That's just how it is, but now it's more so. You can't bully, and I'm not for any kid being pushed around or bullied, but I think because of that era, you had to learn how to deal with things quicker. With things quicker, you had to develop a sense of confidence within self, and that's one thing I tried to explain to my son.

1:41:00 You know when he was, you know, you know when your kids are trying to find their way. I said I wish I could give you what I had. I remember where, when I got that confidence. I remember it was like I was 12 years old and this dude you know he was joining on me. Oh, the kid was teasing me. I started to cry. Now, I wasn't crying because he's hurting my feelings. I was crying because I wanted to get at him and I knew I couldn't because he's hurting my feelings. I was crying because I wanted to get at him and I knew I couldn't because he obviously was bigger than me, you know, and there's nothing I could do. I said. I told my son. I said this is the last time somebody made me cry. I said and you got to learn from that point on. I said when I walk in a room, I interview whatever it is, I feel I'm that dude in the room but I'm the one who is the poorest, maybe not the most handsome, but I always have that confidence.

1:41:57 Not because I think I'm all of that, because it's something that comes from inside of me that I look at you. I'm a man, just like you are. You put your pants on just like I do, and I don't think you are any better than me. I'm saying I'm better than you, but I'm a man and you can see me that type of thing Right. Right, well, yeah, that's where we are, man. So, um, listen, listen, we've been going at it for a minute now and um, as always, man, I greatly appreciate your insights. I thank you so much for this.

1:42:38 We got to do it again because I got you know we. There's some other things I want to talk about. Oh we can and, like I said, pray for some of these federal workers, man, because, as I said, you guys on the outside are not getting the full story. It's think about it. I'm a federal worker too. I'm one. Think about. I remember, when my boys both were in school at the same time. I'm a federal worker too. I'm one. So think about I remember when my boys both were in school at the same time. I'm paying our mortgage, paying both their rent. Now you lose your position, your job, because of nothing that you didn't do. That can set families in a tizzy.

1:43:22 That is a it's I I don't know. It's an awful place to be and I can't imagine a billionaire from South Africa, an Africana who came up in that apartheid way of life, can you imagine that? I mean, when you you're giving out, hey, you come to our country. This is called a gold visa. You just pay five million dollars, but no rich person is taking that on, because then they're going to have to come out and pay the taxes that we got paid. They're going to Dubai or Monaco where they don't got to be paying all these taxes. That on, because then they're going to have to come out and pay the taxes that we got paid.

1:44:02 They're going to Dubai or Monaco where they don't got to be paying all these taxes. They ain't buying on that. They could still come to the US and buy real estate, buy property, and the US is for sale, so anyway, yeah, yeah, man, that's a whole. But, yes, you're right, as far as the federal workers, man, we are in some troubling times, um, still a couple of years out myself, you know, trying to trying to reach that, that, that age, just a couple, a little less than a couple, but just a couple, and, um, you know, the thing is, though, it shouldn't even have to come to that right, we shouldn't even have to be worrying about that type of stuff.

1:44:47 But, yeah, um, definitely, man, for all of us as federal workers and the ones that have already been let go, yeah, um, that, you know, the stories are heartbreaking, um and uh, especially the ones who made provisions, uprooted their families, moved to new states and only to be let go when they got there. Yeah, you know, it's just sad. So, with that said, again, brother, I appreciate you, man, appreciate you, thank you so much, and let's do it again soon. Hey, only a text or a phone call away, brother Just give me a hand.

1:45:29 Yes, sir, I appreciate you. Man, all right, you too, all righty, take care.